Lowyat.NET: Latest topics by kmarc

[WTS] Dell Axim x50v

kmarc — Sat, 29 Nov 2008 21:38:04 +0800

Dell Axim x50v
Upgraded to WM6 Classic (Dell Axim X50v Windows Mobile 6 Classic A03 Beta 1 ROM MagLite Editon)

Full specs : http://www.pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=132&view=0

1) Warranty period : 1 week (warranty by Dell ended)

2) Price : RM 500 (Negotiable)

3) Dealing method : COD or postage (If postage, buyer pays RM35)

4) Location of Seller: Kuching

6) Items that is included
- Full Box item
- Original Dell Box included
- PPC unit x 1
- Original Dell Desktop charger/sync x1
- Original Dell Travel charger x1
- Original Dell Sync Cable x1
- Original Dell slip case x1
- Original Dell Belt clip pouch x1
- Original Dell Standard Battery x 2
- User manual x1
- Getting started CD x1
- Screen protector x1
- Presentation pack CD (ClearVue) x1
- VGA output cable x1
- Generic Sync and Charge cable x1
- Original Dell WM5 upgrade CD and Getting started CD WM5 x1
- CF card 1gb x1

7) Condition
Physically : looks 80% new, wear and tear at rubber underneath , batteries are >1 year, needs frequent charging, never sent for repair
Works : well

8) Reason for sale : Selling for a friend

[WTS] Samsung SGH - i600

kmarc — Thu, 27 Nov 2008 16:16:13 +0800

Samsung SGH - i600 (used)
For Detailed specs refer to
http://www.pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=621&view=1
Upgraded to WM6 (original FMG/Samsung Malaysia ROM)

1) Warranty period : warranty by FMG Malaysia
till Feb 2009 (18 months)
- receipt - will confirm with my friend

2) Price : RM 700.00 (Firm)

3) Payment : ATM/Bank In/IBG

4) Location of Seller : Kuching, Sarawak

5) Dealing method: COD or postage (buyer pays for postage RM 35)

6) Items that is included
- Full box
- All original accessories included
- 2 batteries (1 extended, 1 standard)
- Sync cable x1
- Charge cable x1
- Micro SD 1gb x1
- Original Samsung headset x1
- Warranty card included (FMG warranty 18 months till Feb 2009, bought at 15/8/2007)
- *FMG sticker still attached
- Extended battery cover x1
- Free Crystal Case x1 (for slim battery cover)

7) Condition
- Physically : looks new, no bumps/scratches/screen protector on since bought/
- Looks : New

8) Reason for sale : Selling for a friend who upgraded to Samsung i780

[WTS] Cooler Master GeminII

kmarc — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 21:18:24 +0800

Item(s): Cooler Master GeminII CPU HSF

Package includes: Everything in the picture including the plates for socket:
1) LGA 775
2) AM2
3) AMD socket 754/939/940

Fans not included as they cannot fit the original box! (The HSF doesn't come with fans)

Price: RM80 including poslaju

Highest offer :
- enzim10 - RM64 including poslaju - reserved
- feruz_600 - RM 75 including shipping - backed out
- xboxmy - RM45 COD

Will decide tomorrow night who I will sell the HSF to. Thx.

(Please don't offer an increment of RM1 la... thx )

Warranty: 1 week personal

Dealing method: COD or poslaju

Location of seller: Kuching

Contact method/details: Pm me or post here

Age of item: Dunno, bought 2nd hand last time

---

Item(s) conditions: Looks quite old but still working great!
- Also dusty but I will clean it as best I can before sending out

Picture: As below

Reason for sale: Got myself a Tuniq tower 120
- also hate to take out mobo to install/uninstall the GeminII....

Server/workstation CPUs vs. Desktop CPUs

kmarc — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 10:02:22 +0800

Server and workstation CPUs vs. Desktop CPUs

I had the pleasure of using an Intel X3320 server processor (equivalent to the desktop Q9300 desktop processor) although it was just a temporary bliss. My rig was not stable even at stock clocks regardless of any tweaks or bios update, probably because my mobo couldn’t support it. As such, that nice processor was returned.

However, during that brief period of owning this excellent CPU, I’ve decided to come up with a guide on the differences (or similarities) between server-class processors compared to their desktop equivalents. This is also in view of the frequently asked questions on the differences between these CPUs.

Disclaimer:
1) I’m not in the computer industry so forgive me for any mistakes. Computers are just my hobby
2) Any suggestions/comments/help is most welcomed, just pm me
3) I’m neither in Intel’s nor AMD’s camp. Sponsor me an AMD rig and I’ll do a guide for you
4) Information are scrubbed from the Internet. References are quoted at the end of the guide

Before we start

Some clarifications/definition:

Xeon processors = server/workstation processors

CPU = refers to the processor and not the whole rig/computer

Index:
1) Server/workstation processors and their counterparts
2) Comparison between Xeons and desktop CPUs
3) Differences of Xeon vs. Desktop CPU - the details
--a) VID
--b) Intel I/O Acceleration technolgoy
--c) Demand based switching
--d) PROCHOT, THERMTRIP, PECI, Intel TXT
4) Other differences - the "prefetchers"
5) CPU binning
6) Issues of compatibility with desktop motherboards
7) Conclusion
8) Other references

1) Server/workstation processors and their counterparts

I will only be concentrating certain Xeon processors especially the ones that can run on normal desktop computers.

Let's start by looking at the types of Xeon processors and their equivalent desktop processors.

[attachmentid=568993]

Note that Xeon processors, like all Intel CPUs, are divided into specific "series". In this case, it is the 3000-series which includes the 3100-series, 3200-series and 3300-series.

As you can see from the table, the Xeon processors share similar specification as their desktop counterparts. For example:
X3360 = Q9550
X3350 = Q9450
X3320 = Q9300

This is not surprising as they actually share the same architecture and performance characteristics.

However, as you will come to realize later in this guide, there are actually some differences between these CPUs.

2) Comparison between Xeons and desktop CPUs

Now, let's take a look at individual CPUs. These specs were taken direct from Intel's website. I have arranged it in a table so that it is easier to compare.

The differences between the CPUs are highlighted in red.

Quad core - Q9450 vs X3350
[attachmentid=569001]

X3350 specs : http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLAX2
Q9450 specs : http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLAWR

Major differences are:
1) VID:
- The X3350’s VID is fixed at 1.212v whereas the Q9450 can range from 0.85 – 1.3625v

2) Q9450 has PROCHOT, THERMTRIP, PECI and Intel TXT.

3) X3350 has Intel I/O AT and Demand based switching.

Note : Will discuss in detail about these differences in the next section

Quad core - Q9300 vs X3320
[attachmentid=569005]

X3320 specs : http://processorfinder.intel.com/Details.aspx?sSpec=SLAWF
Q9300 specs : http://processorfinder.intel.com/Details.aspx?sSpec=SLAWE

Major differences are:
1) VID:
- The X3320’s VID is fixed at 1.212v whereas the Q9450 can range from 0.85 – 1.3625v

2) Q9300 has PROCHOT, THERMTRIP, PECI and Intel TXT.

3) X3320 has Intel I/O AT BUT does not have Demand based switching like the X3350.

Dual core - E8400 vs E3110
[attachmentid=569010]

E3110 specs : http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLAPM
E8400 specs : http://processorfinder.intel.com/Details.aspx?sSpec=SLAPL

1) VID:
- The E3110’s VID is 0.956v – 1.225v while the E8400’s VID is 0.85v – 1.3625v

2) E8400 has PROCHOT, THERMTRIP, PECI and Intel TXT
- It also has added features i.e. C2E and C4 state, which is not available for the Q9450/Q9330 quads

3) E3110 has Intel I/O AT BUT again does not have Demand based switching like the X3350.

As you can see, there ARE differences between the Xeons and desktop CPUs. These differences will be explained in detailed in the next section.

3) Differences of Xeon vs. Desktop CPU - the details

Here's a summary of the differences:

[attachmentid=569503]

Let's go into the differences in detail.

a) VID
- I have no idea why the Xeon quad's VID is fixed at 1.212v. It is highly unlikely that this is true as my own X3320's VID is 1.15v.

- However, if you get a Q9450 with the lowest VID of 0.85v at stock, wouldn’t that be an excellent processor for overclocking? The only downside to this is that you have to hunt for such a proc with such a low VID.

- Since the Xeon quad's VID is fixed at 1.212v, I guess we won't know what is the lowest VID the proc can go.

- Although not confirmed by any scientific data, it is generally thought that processors with a lower VID would overclock better. This is because the have more headroom to overclock as the stock vcore is low to begin with.
--- However, many overclockers have found that for extreme overclocking, the differences in VID doesn't really matter as the proc is pushed to the limits. Guess that's a good thing for us as most of us are only normal overclockers

So, in terms of VID, the desktop CPUs would be the CPU of choice IF you can find one with such a low VID. This is in view of the unknown actual VIDs for the xeon.s

b) Intel I/O AT (Acceleration technology)
- Only present on the Xeon

Direct from Intel

QUOTE

This unique technology moves network data more efficiently through Intel Xeon processor-based servers for fast, scaleable, and reliable networking”
In other words, Intel I/O AT reduces CPU utilization for the processing of network packets which will increase throughput and decrease latency. This frees up the CPU to do other important things.

Performance
A primary benefit of Intel I/OAT is its ability to significantly reduce CPU overhead, freeing resources for more critical tasks. Intel I/OAT uses the server’s processors more efficiently by leveraging architectural improvements within the CPU, chipset, network controller, and firmware to minimize performance-limiting bottlenecks. Intel I/OAT accelerates TCP/IP processing, delivers data-movement efficiencies across the entire server platform, and minimizes system overhead.

Scalability
Intel I/OAT provides network acceleration that scales seamlessly across multiple Gigabit Ethernet (GbE) ports. It cost-effectively scales up to eight GbE ports and up to 10GbE, with power and thermal characteristics similar to those of a standard gigabit network adapter. TCP Offload Engine (TOE) solutions, in contrast, require a separate TOE card for each port, resulting in significant cost and thermal challenges for server platforms.

Reliability
Intel I/OAT is a safe and flexible choice because it is tightly integrated into popular operating systems such as Microsoft Windows Server* 2003 and Linux*, avoiding support risks associated with relying on third-party hardware vendors for network stack updates. Intel I/OAT also preserves critical network configurations such as teaming and failover, by maintaining control of the network stack processing within the CPU—where it belongs. This results in reduced support risks for IT departments.

Features and benefits of I/O AT:
[attachmentid=569527]

If you want more info, you can take a look at this video from Intel about the I/O AT : http://softwareblogs.intel.com/2008/07/29/...nd-opensolaris/

From the information above, it is obvious that the Intel I/O AT would benefit servers and workstations but probably not desktop computers.

c) Demand Based Switching (DBS)
- DBS is another power management feature that allows Xeon processors to reduce core frequency and voltage until the horsepower is actually required. The core frequency is reduced to a minimum of 2.8Ghz until the demands of an application or service force the processor back to its default clock speed.

- This can substantially reduce average power consumption for servers operating at typical data centre utilization rates. According to IBM, DBS has the capability to save customers 24% annually in power cost.

- DBS is only available for the 3.4 and 3.6Ghz versions of the Xeon processor (D0 stepping).

- Note that DBS will have the most impact on data centres (naturally, as it is a server processor!), and thus, do not benefit home users. Furthermore, home users have better power consumption features like the EIST and C1E power management features….

Wikipedia defined DBS in the most appropriate manner:

QUOTE

Intel DBS is a re-marketing of Intel’s Speedstep technology to the server marketplace.

Again, DBS would not benefit home users as it is naturally designed for servers/workstations. Furthermore, desktop processors has Intel's Speedstep technology and doesn't need DBS.

d) PROCHOT, THERMTRIP, PECI, TXT, C2E and C4 features

I can't be sure whether the Xeons have such features in their proc. However, based on their datasheet, these features are not mentioned at all and I would assumed that this is correct.

PROCHOT
Short for “Processor Hot”

Designed to activate the processor’s Thermal Control Circuit (TCC) when the processor’s has reached its maximum safe operating temperature. The TCC then reduces processor power consumption by modulating (i.e. starting and stopping) the internal processor core clocks, which subsequently results in a gradual decrease in core temperature.
The TCC will only activate when the Thermal Monitor is enabled.

In short, this feature will slow down the processor if it is too hot. Definitely important for overclockers, not because of too high overclocking, but rather may be due to inadequate cooling or improperly seated HSF.

THERMTRIP
Short for “Thermal Trip”

In the event of a catastrophic cooling failure, the processor will automatically shut down when the silicon has reached a temperature approximately 20’C above the maximum Tc. Activation of THERMTRIP indicates the processor junction temperature has reached a level beyond where permanent silicon damage may occur. Once activated, the processor will automatically shut down.

In short, this feature will shutdown the processor/computer once critical core temperature is reached. Also important for overclockers as explained above.

PECI (Platform Environment Control Interface)
A proprietary one-wire bus interface that provides a communication channel between the processor and chipset components to external monitoring devices.

The processor contains Digital Thermal Sensors (DTS) distributed throughout it’s die (i.e. temperature sensors in the die). PECI provides an interface to relay the highest DTS temperature within a die to external management devices for thermal/fan speed control.

Take a look at this diagram:
[attachmentid=569526]

Source : http://intel.wingateweb.com/US08/published...MTS001_100r.pdf

In summary, PECI is definitely an important feature in desktop processors. Again, even though PECI is not stated in Xeon processors, I had the impression that PECI does exist in Xeons as I can still monitoring the core temperature of my X3320 and my CPU HSF will speed up and slow down based on the core temperature readings.

Until and unless somebody knows the answer to this, I have to assume that it is also present in Xeon processors based on my own personal experience.

Intel TXT (Intel Trusted Execution Technology)
A security technology to help protect against software-based attacks. It is Intel’s safer computing initiative that defines a set of hardware enhancements that interoperate with an Intel TXT-enabled operating system.

Direct from Wikipedia:

QUOTE

Intel Trusted Execution Technology (Intel TXT) is a hardware extension to some of Intel's microprocessors and respective chipsets, intended to provide users and organizations (governments, enterprises, corporations, universities, etc.) with a higher level of trusting while accessing, modifying or creating sensitive data and code. Intel claims that it will be very useful, especially in the business world, as a way to defend against software-based attacks aimed at stealing sensitive information.

Definitely a must for desktop processors IF it protects your computer from hackers. However, there seems to be a disadvantage to this technology. Thanks to our forumer ktek for this link : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing

C2E and C4
These terms refers to Intel’s processor low-power states (C1, C2, C3 and C4). C0 is the normal operating state of a processor.

In order to conserve energy and reduce thermal load, Intel’s processor include the option of operating in several operating “states”. During the times when the processor is working hard, the greatest processor clock frequency that is available may be selected to enhance processor throughput. However, during the times when instructions are not being processed, the processor may transfer to one of several available low-power states. In these states, the processor clock frequency may be reduced or completely stopped.

Also important for desktop processors.

4) Other differences - the "prefetchers"

Unconfirmed reports have indicated that there are differences in the prefetchers between the Xeon and desktop CPUs.

Direct quote from this link : http://www.anandtech.com/printarticle.aspx?i=3216

QUOTE

Despite using a Xeon socket, the Core 2 Extreme QX9775 isn't a Xeon. It turns out there are some very subtle differences between Core 2 and Xeon processors, even if they're based on the same core. Intel tunes the prefetchers on Xeon and Core 2 CPUs differently so unlike the Xeon 5365 used in its V8 platform, the QX9775 is identical in every way to desktop Core 2 processors - the only difference being pinout.

Intel wouldn't give us any more information on how the prefetchers are different, but we suspect the algorithms are tuned according to the typical applications Xeons find themselves running vs. where most Core 2s end up.

Another quote from a forumer : http://forum.ncix.com/forums/index.php?mod...ber=5&subpage=2

QUOTE

As Xeons are aimed at servers and workstations, the four prefetchers are tuned for these sorts of applications, rather than standard desktop applications and games

As stated by Anandtech, Intel is not providing more information on the prefetchers and as such, there is no point in speculating further on this matter.

5) CPU binning
"CPU binning" or "speed binning of processors" is basically a process where CPUs are tested and then divided into different bins (i.e. groups) based on their capabilities in terms of speed.

Note : I can't seem to find any good sources of chip binning. Anybody who has info on this, please give me some info. Thx. As such, the following is a compilation and summary of what is available on the net.

Why is CPU binning important in this guide? Well, it is well-known that server-class processors goes through a more "vigorous" testing compared to desktop processors. It is thought that Xeons (compared to their equivalent counterpart):
1) Higher binned with less power requirements (run at lower operating voltages)
2) Undergo additional validation testing

Due to the above factors, it is said that CPUs that make the grade for server/workstations are the best of the breed. This in turn, translates to a more reliable CPU (they are supposed to run 24/7!) that overclocks better (although not necessarily so).

As an analogue, just imagine that you have 100 runners for the 100m olympic games. (Sad that the olympics is over )
- Imagine that you want to divide them into 10 groups, with group 1 with the best runners and group 10 with slowest runners.
- How would you divide them? Naturally, you would categorize them based on their times, e.g. group 1 below 10 seconds, group 2 from 10.0 to 10.5 seconds, group 3, 10.5-11.0 seconds, and so on and so forth
- In the end, you'll have 10 groups which, for marketing purposes, you give them some names:
---Group 1 is QX9650
---Group 2 is QX9450
---Group 3 is X3360
---Group 4 is Q9450
---Group 5 is X3320
---Group 6 is Q9300
---Group 7 is Q8200
---Group 10 is also grouped in special bin - the dust bin!!!!

Now, just substitute the groups for bins and you'll get the idea.

As such, the higher binned processors are better as they are capable of higher speeds.

How are the bins graded?
Again, there is no good source of information on this.

However, this article on the new exciting feature of "Turbo Mode" in Intel's upcoming CPU "Core i7" (which is nehalem) does give a hint that a "bin" translates to a speed difference of 200-300mhz.

QUOTE

The latest revelation is Turbo Mode. According to IDF stalwart and all round Intel evangelist, Pat Gelsinger, Turbo Mode allows individual cores in its upcoming Core i7 desktop CPU to be entirely switched off.

That in turn allows additional power to be channelled to the remaining cores. The idea is to boost performance in applications that do not make use of all four of Core i7's processor cores.

Intel says that for single threaded applications, the technique allows the speed of a single core to be boosted by two "bins". In layman's terms, a bin translates into around 200-300MHz.

Source : http://www.techradar.com/news/computing/id...e-i7-cpu-455108

Other sources

If you want to know more, the following are excerpts of what chip binning is about.

QUOTE

It’s essentially a practice in which chip manufacturers design a chip to hit a targeted speed grade, say for example 2GHz, but after the chips are manufactured and tested, manufactures find some of the chips perform at the targeted speed grade of 2GHz, some perform at higher than 2GHz, and even more perform at lower speeds than that targeted specification number (some of those lower performing chips may perform at 1.8 GHz, others at 1.5 GHz and some at 1 GHz…and lower).

But instead of throwing out the chips that didn’t hit the targeted performance specification, some semiconductor vendors, especially microprocessor vendors, sell most of them to us, the consumer. They simply put them in bins according to speed grade and price them accordingly. In processors for example, the processors that are the highest speed, essentially overclocked processors, traditionally sell for a premium and go into gaming machines. The ones that hit targeted performance go into high end home computing and business PCs. The ones that didn’t hit their targeted performance go into lower cost PCs and the very very lowest ones get thrown out. Very little is wasted. That’s one of the reasons processor companies do so well, they get to sell most of their inventories. Other types of chips, like ASICs, have to hit performance grades and meet system specifications or customers don’t buy them.

Source from www.edn.com : http://www.edn.com/blog/1480000148/post/1240018324.html

QUOTE

On every lot of wafers produced, regardless of manufacturer, there is a distribution of chips- it may be Gaussian, it may be Poisson, it may be something else- and it is always nearly skewed in some vector or another (fmax at the expense of yield, power at the expense of fmax,...). Since we are discussing fmax, there are typically two options available- produce standard lots, and get low bin splits (small percentages of the lot) in the highest speed bin, but good overall die yield, with lots of lower speed bins. Or... run a skew lot, where top bin split is much higher, but die yield is likely lower, typically due to higher leakage (due to CDs, implants, and a number of other process tricks that yield speed).

Economically speaking, this means that introducing a new top bin would be for one of two reasons:
1. Defensive purposes: competitive environment requires a faster chop to compete.
2. Offensive purposes: competitive environment can be changed by introing a faster part. This could be viewed from the "final nail" viewpoint.

In the case of defensive purposes, there isn't a lot a company can do- if their hand is forced, it is forced. You do what you need to to compete. In the second scenario however, there are additional considerations. If the new top bin is not required to compete, then maximizing profit/revenue behavior should drive the release decision. If by releasing a new top bin, I reduce the amount of $1K parts I can sell, and take my current performance leader and whack the price in half- have I sabotaged myself? If I can get high enough yields of top bin, this is an easy decision- crush the competition. But if I can't, and I can only generate a few %, then why do it?

I believe the latter is the case at Intel today. If Intel HAD to release a higher bin, they would do so. Manufacturing capacity what it is, they can afford to tank yield on some % of skew lots for more higher bin parts. They can even afford to put some "better than stock" cooling on said parts for a few $$/SKU. But the marketplace isn't demanding it, because AMD is currently not executing- and therefore Intel is maximizing profit.

Quoted from Dr. Yield here : http://scientiasblog.blogspot.com/2007/07/...hz-barrier.html

6) Issues of compatibility with desktop motherboards

It is important to realize that Xeons are manufactured for servers and workstations. It is said that the micro-code of Xeons are very different and as such, not all motherboards will work correctly with the Xeons if they don't recognize the micro-code of the CPU.

However, most new motherboards especially the higher end and better quality ones should have a proper BIOS that supports the Xeon processors. For relatively older motherboards that supports 45nm processors, a BIOS update to the latest one that supports 45nm processors should solve the problem.

I, on the other hand, had the unfortunate experience of having a motherboard that is not compatible with my previous X3320 even with an updated bios.

7) Conclusion
I wished there were better sources of information to base this guide on but alas, this is not to be. However, I will just make some conclusions based on available information. If anybody comes across any good information on this topic, kindly inform me and I will include it in here.

So, after presenting all available informations, I guess you want answers to a few questions:

1) Are Xeons EXACTLY the same as their desktop counterparts?

- I'm sure you have seen forums where forumers say something like this "THEY ARE EXACTLY THE SAME!". And the tone of their reply indicated that they are 110% sure!!
- Well, as you can see from above, they are NOT exactly the same. Maybe 99% identical?

2) Are there any performance differences for normal users/gamers?

- As far as anybody can tell, they perform the same in games and in any normal everyday applications
- Actually, I can't find any direct comparisons between the Xeons and their desktop counterparts

3) Are the Xeons really good overclockers?

- In general, Xeons should overclock better compared to desktop CPUs due to their lower voltages and higher binning.
- This is not necessary so but we're talking about overall overclocking capabilities between each class

- In addition, overclockers wants would want better reliability of the CPUs which server processors can provide as they undergo extra testing and are supposed to run 24/7.
- Again, that doesn't mean that desktop processors are less reliable for home users

4) Should I get a Xeon or a proper desktop CPU?

- In my opinion, if you want to overclock, you should get a Xeon rather that its desktop counterpart PROVIDED that your motherboard can support it.
- You may argue that you can find a good desktop processor with low VID and good overclockability. Well, the same can be said for the Xeon processor right?

So, based on all available information, I would go for a Xeon processor rather than its desktop equivalent as it has more potential to be a good overclocker, relatively more reliable and probably more or less similarly prices compared to their desktop equivalent.

Of course, there is absolutely nothing wrong in getting a desktop processor!!!

8) Other references

General
1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xeon

E3110 review
http://www.circuitremix.com/index.php?q=node/122

X3320 review
http://techreport.com/articles.x/14555

[WTB] Mid- to High-end air cooler/HSF.. (2nd hand)

kmarc — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 19:11:17 +0800

Item(s): Any mid- to High-end air cooler/HSF
- should fit socket 775 i.e. compatible with my rig.... see my sig
- preferably NOT with push-pins
- 2nd-hand only
- examples of HSF I'm looking for: Xigmatek, TRUE, big typhoon, etc...

Package includes: Everything

Price: Offer me

Warranty: As long as good condition on arrival

Dealing method: COD or postage

Location of buyer: Kuching

Contact method/details: Post here or pm me

Age of item: Not important

---

Item(s) conditions: Should be working well

Picture: Preferable

Reason for buying: Fed-up with the GeminII..... soooo difficult to install and uninstall...

Oh ya, want to sell my geminII also... pm me for details. Thx.

Intel Will Disclose DTS Specs for 45nm processors

kmarc — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:56:20 +0800

Great news! We can finally monitor the core temperature of 45nm CPUs when Intel discloses the DTS specs!

This will only be revealed at the upcoming IDF : http://www.tomshardware.com/news/IDF-DTS-T...ature,6154.html

Update:

The Tjunctions for the 45nm procs are out!

45nm Desktop Dual-Core Processors
Intel Core 2 Duo processor E8000 and E7000 series - 100°C

45 nm Desktop Quad-Core Processors
Intel Core 2 Quad processor Q9000 and Q8000 series - 100°C
Intel Core 2 Extreme processor QX9650 - 95°C
Intel Core 2 Extreme processor QX9770 - 85°C

Link : http://intel.wingateweb.com/US08/published...MTS001_100r.pdf

Update x2: Oops... looks like it is not as simple as that

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-dts-cpu,6300.html

[WTS] Q6600 G0 retail

kmarc — Mon, 11 Aug 2008 18:15:07 +0800

Item(s): Intel Q6600 G0 retail version

Package includes:
Processor + Receipt from AllIT Hypermarket
No original box (bought from another forumer "stasio" who threw away the box )
- previous forumer gave me his E8400 box (he bought a retail E8400)
- supposed to give me the original Q6600 HSF but mistakenly sent me the E8400 HSF
- planning to exchange HSF when convenient but difficult as I'm in Kuching (he is in KL)

- you can arrange to exchange the HSF with "stasio" later on..... I have his contact number....

Price: RM480 including poslaju
Warranty: Proc bought in 2008, dunno exact date as receipt not stated!

Dealing method: COD or poslaju

Location of seller: Kuching

Contact method/details: Post here or pm me

Age of item: Should be less than 1 year

---

Item(s) conditions: 100% working condition
- running at 3.2Ghz at 1.328v load (set 1.400v in bios) (24/7)

Picture: Proc in my rig... the rest as below

Reason for sale: Poisoned by OEM X3320

Additional info:
CPU VID : 1.325v

[WTS] Dlink ADSL modem router DSL-504T

kmarc — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 19:23:35 +0800

Item(s): Dlink ADSL modem router DSL-504T

Package includes: Modem + power adapter + box

Price: RM 25 including poslaju

Warranty: 1 week personal

Dealing method: COD preferred, if poslaju, buyer pays

Location of seller: Kuching

Contact method/details: Post here or pm me

Age of item: 3+ years

---

Item(s) conditions: Still working up to today.
- This modem has 4 ports
- Port 1 & 2 already kaput
- I was using port 3 & 4 for my 2 computers

- The modem also sometimes reset itself.... so I have to key-in the password and user ID again....

Picture: As below

Reason for sale: Got new modem!

The end of Nvidia chipset?

kmarc — Sat, 02 Aug 2008 13:30:52 +0800

Nvidia Set to Quit Chipset Business, Multi-GPU SLI Tech in Danger : http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/chipsets/disp..._in_Danger.html

Whether this is good or bad news remains to be seen.... if SLI technology is opened up, then it is easier to SLI without the need to buy nforce-based motherboards.....

[WTS] DDR 400 ram (512mb x 2)

kmarc — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:46:56 +0800

Item(s): DDR 400 rams (2 sticks of 512mb)

Package includes: Rams only

Price: Offer me

Warranty: 1 week personal

Dealing method: COD or poslaju

Location of seller: Kuching

Contact method/details: Pm me or post here

Age of item: Dunno.... must be old

---

Item(s) conditions: 100% working

Picture: Will upload later

Reason for sale: No more DDR rig

[WTS] ATI Radeon 9600XT 128mb VIVO (AGP)

kmarc — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 22:52:13 +0800

Item(s): ATI Radeon 9600XT 128mb VIVO

Package includes: Everything in the picture (including the VIVO adapter)
- Note : No half-life CD.... was not there when I bought it 2nd hand....

Price: RM 80.....

Warranty: 1 week personal.
- Don't have receipt and don't think there is any more warranty....

Dealing method: COD or postage

Location of seller: Kuching

Contact method/details: PM me or post here

Age of item: Old

---

Item(s) conditions: 100% working
- I've used it without any problems on my shuttle XPC
- Initially, when I bought it 2nd-hand, the fan made funny noises
- I had to slow down the fan to make the noise disappear
- After a while, the noise disappeared..... Dunno what was wrong

Picture: As below

Reason for sale: Sold my shuttle XPC casing... no more AGP rig...

[WTB] 8800-series graphic cards (2nd hand)

kmarc — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 15:58:20 +0800

Item(s):Any 8800-series cards which includes:

8800GS, 8800GT, 8800GTS (G80 or G92) or.............. 8800GTX (I wished!)

Package includes:

- Not important but receipt is preferable

Price: Budget - up to RM500

- please quote your expected price and don't ask me to offer you

- please remember that a brand new 9800GT should be around RM 550 (still awaiting for the prices to come out)
- 9800GT is a rebranded 8800GT (but 55nm process instead of 65nm, support hybrid tech and support tri-SLI)

Warranty: Preferable

Dealing method: COD or poslaju

Location of seller: Kuching

Contact method/details: Post here or pm me

Age of item: Not too old

---

Item(s) conditions: Should be 100% working

Picture: -

Reason for sale: Trying to get a cheap card for folding on my 2nd rig.....

PSU guide

kmarc — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 18:34:00 +0800

Noob guide to the basics of a computer PSU (Power Supply Unit)

I myself knew nothing about PSUs and wanted to know more about it. So, in the quest to find out more about PSUs, I did my own reading, from whatever available sources on the net. As such, this guide was created to help other noobs (like me) who wants to understand more about the PSU.

All information was pulled from the net and references are listed at the end.

Any help/advice/comments are most welcomed, especially PSU gurus!

Index:

1st post
- The Power Supply Unit (PSU) - Definition
- The basics
- Before we begin - ATX form factor
- How to read the specification of a PSU
- The very very important 12v rail
- Multiple 12V rails vs. Single 12V rail

2nd post
- The basic components of a PSU
- Connectors
- Modular PSUs

3rd post
- Efficiency
- The "80 PLUS" standard
- Power Factor Correction (PFC)

4th post
- Which brand is a good brand?
- How much watt does my rig need anyway?
- Tips on buying a good PSU
- References

The Power Supply Unit (PSU) - Definition
Everybody knows what a PSU is but here’s a simple definition anyway:
A component that supplies power to a computer by converting AC power drawn from your main socket to usable low-voltage DC power for the internal components of your computer. The output of DC power are through rails (see below).

AC – Alternating current
DC – Direct current (no, I’m not going to explain this, google it up yourself! )

Take a look at this picture for better understanding:

[attachmentid=520681]

The basics

Important terms

Watt – The accepted market rating for power supplies
- Watts = Volts(v) x Amps(A)
- This formula is important to calculate the wattage on each rail. Read on for further understanding

Rails – Every power supply has many rails. Each rail is rated for a specific voltage, and will always carry that voltage no matter how many devices are connected to it
- However, each rail has an AMPERE RATING (A). The more devices you connect to each rail, the lower the available amperage to the rest of your computer system will be on that specific rail.
- Examples of the rails available on a typical PSU:

[attachmentid=520684]

Before we begin - ATX form factor
Know that most common PSUs are build to conform to the ATX form factor @ standard (google this for more info). As such, the guide is based mainly on ATX power supplies unless stated otherwise.

ATX – Advanced Technology Extended

The ATX form factor has had 5 main power supply designs throughout its lifetime:

[attachmentid=520693]

ATXv12 v2.2 is the current standard. However, there’s a new Intel ATX12V v2.3 specification.

Additional notes on the 24-pin main connector: PCI-E requires a 75-watt power requirement that was not capable with the older 20-pin connector. To handle this, 4 additional pins were added to the connector to supply the addition power through 12V rails

Most PSUs nowadays comes with a 24-pin connectors actually have pins arrange in a 20+4 setup….. The detachable 4-pins connector will allow the connector (20-pins) to fit into older motherboards that uses the ATX12V 1.0/1.3 specification (see the part on "connectors").

How to read the specification of a PSU
So, if you understand the basics, you should be able to read the specification of a PSU.
Take a look at the specs of my Enermax Liberty 500W:

[attachmentid=520744]

1st row - shows your AC input (your wall socket voltage i.e. 240v for Malaysia)

2nd row – shows the DC output to all the rails (i.e. +3.3v, +5v, dual 12v rail (+12V1 & +12V2), -12v, +5vsb)

3rd row – shows the Amperage (A) for each rail

4th row – shows the maximum wattage for the rails
- Note that the +3.3v rail and the +5v rail both comes under the maximum wattage of 160W.
- This means that the PSU cannot feed both the rails maximum amperage at once. It can feed the +3.3v rail to 28A, or it can feed the +5v rail to 30A. However, it cannot feed both the rails to their maximum at the same time i.e. (3.3v x 28A) + (5v x 30A) = 92.4 watts + 150 watts = 242.4 watts (which exceeds the 160 watt limit)

- Also note that this PSU has two 12V rails - +12V1 & +12V2
- Why 2 rails instead of 1?
--- +12V1 max Ampere is 22A and +12V2 max Ampere is also 22A
--- However, when added together, the maximum Ampere is 32A and NOT 22A + 22A = 44A

--- This is because this kind of PSU only has one set of circuitry inside the PSU which generates the 12 volts, capable of supplying 32A in total (32A x 12v = 384w). However, due to various reasons (see below on "Multiple 12V rails vs. Single 12V rail"), it is split into 2 separate 12 volt outputs each with its own current limit circuitry (i.e. +12V1 & +12V2), each capable of supplying 22A for each rail (22A x 12v = 264W). As such, if you try to draw more than 22 amps from either of the +12v rails, the PSU will shut down. If you try to draw more than 32 amps of total current from BOTH of the rails, the PSU will also shut down.

Note : So now you know why your rig keeps on shutting down!!!

- In other words, just like the 3.3v and the 5v rails, the two +12v rails are also NOT additive. Peak power is for one or the other, but not both at the same time i.e. (12v x 22A) + (12v x 22A) = 264w + 264w = 528w. The peak power is indicated as 384w (32A) which is 12v x 32A = 384w.

Right most column – shows the:
Total power = 500w (which is what we commonly refer to as “True power” or equivalent)
Peak power = 550w (which can be deceiving……more on this later)

Note that when you buy a PSU, you want to see the amount of CONTINUOUS power that the PSU can supply. For my Enermax, it is 500w.
Some manufacturers provide PEAK power, to make it more attractive for buyers. However, peak power is considered as false advertising, trying to make users buy their product based on their cheap but falsely high PSU wattage.

The very very important 12V rail.....
From the table above, you can see that the 12V rails supply important components especially the CPU and the graphic card.

Nowadays, the graphic card needs more and more power and it is a must for you to check the requirements of a graphic card before you buy the graphic card or PSU. Manufacturers usually do state the PSU requirement on their website or on the product box.

Here are some examples of some graphic card power requirements:

[attachmentid=540039]

Here's some examples of actual power consumptions at idle and load - GPU, CPU & mobo:
http://www.anandtech.com/casecoolingpsus/showdoc.aspx?i=3413
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/GeForc...ck,2028-22.html

Example 1

Wait a second. Take a look at my Enermax Liberty specification:

[attachmentid=522693]

If you look at the specification of my PSU, you'll notice that my +12V1 is only 22A (red circle) and my +12V2 is also 22A. So, how can I run my 8800GT (requiring 26A on the 12v rail) with this PSU?????

Well, the answer is that the rating on the 12v rail is the COMBINED amperage. For my Enermax, the combined rating on the 12v rail is actually 32A (blue circle), which would run the 8800GT just fine. Note that this PSU would not be recommended to run the GTX260 or GTX280 as their amperage rating is far higher.

Example 2

Take a look a this PSU:

[attachmentid=522694]

From the specs, it is obvious that this PSU has only one 12v rail which is rated at 22A. As such, this PSU is not recommended to run any of the Nvidia GPU listed above!

For the above statement,Note the word "not recommended" as opposed to "cannot". I didn't say that this PSU CANNOT run, say, the 8800GT. What is important is that this PSU does not meet the requirements of the manufacturer and thus NOT recommended to run on that PSU. You might still be able to use it if you want, but might encounter instability, BSODs, reboots and worse of all, damage to your graphic card or your whole rig.

Example 3

Here's another example. It's a Cooler Master Real Power 550w PSU:

[attachmentid=540060]

Let's concentrate on the +12v rails.

From the specs, you can see that the PSU as 3x +12v rails. It also states the "Peak" amperage and "continuous" amperage. Remember that the "continuous" amperage is the important one.

You can see that the total wattage on the +12v rails is 360W. Wait a second. There is no amperage stated!

That's easily solve by calculating the amperage as you already the the voltage and wattage.

Remember the formula : Watts = Voltage x Amperes

So, Amperes = Watts / Voltage = 360w / 12v = 30A

So, this PSU has 30A on it's 12v rails

Multiple 12V rails vs. Single 12V rail

I'm getting a BIG headache regarding this. Will try to summarize these issues if possible. In the meanwhile, take a look at some good references:
http://www.playtool.com/pages/psumultirail/multirails.html
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/181/12
http://www.xcpus.com/forums/cases-psus/109...-101-102-a.html
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article28-page3.html

[WTS] Raidmax 500w PSU ....

kmarc — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 23:07:08 +0800

Item(s):

1) Raidmax 500w PSU (ATX12V)
- 20+4 main connector
- 4-pin secondary connector (to motherboard)
- 12mm fan
- No PCI-E connector

2) M-Life 350w PSU
- 20+4 main connector
- 4-pin secondary connector (to moetherboard)
- 12mm fan
- No PCI-E connector

Both definitely NOT a true power PSU.....

Package includes: PSU + box + receipt

- receipt is from "IMAGINATIVE ILLUSIONS SDN. BHD." in JB (for item 1)
- still looking for receipt (for item 2)

Price:
Item 1 - Sold, pending delivery
Item 2 - Sold

Warranty: 1 week personal
- should be 1 year from vendor? Not too sure......

Dealing method: COD only

Location of seller: Kuching

Contact method/details: PM or post here

Age of item:
Item 1 - Bought by previous owner on 18 Feb 2008
Item 2 - Still looking for receipt

---

Item(s) conditions:
Item 1 - Looks new. I have never used it since I bought the casing from the previous owner
Item 2 - Almost new....

Picture:
Item 1 - As below
Item 2 - the 4th picture

Reason for sale: Not using it

[WTS] AMD64 3000+ (939) CPU

kmarc — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 19:45:28 +0800

Item(s):
Casing : Shuttle XPC Small Form Factor casing - sold

Motherboard : Shuttle FN95 + 240W shuttle PSU - sold
- Nvidia nForce3 250 chipset
- AGP slot
- LAN port (never tried to use)
- On-board audio (Realtek ALC 655) 6-Channel
- Firewire 400 port
- SPDIF port
- Coaxial digital audio port

RAM : DDR400 512mb x 2 (Air brand, TCCC chipset) - sold

Graphic : ATI Radeon 9600XT VIVO - sold
- comes with VIVO adapter

OCZ ram cooler - sold

4) Sunon fans x4 (80mm) - sold

Available

1) CPU : AMD Athlon 64 3000+ (socket 939) - processor only

2) HDD : 80Gb hard disk (Western Digital Caviar SATA) - sold
- Warranty over (will give 1 week personal warranty)

3) Accessories: Shuttle carry bag + small keyboard (can fit into bag together with the rig)
- COD only
- reserved

Package includes: Everything above + whatever box/accessories/CD that comes with it

Price: Offer me..... can nego

1) RM 30
2) RM 50
3) RM 50

Warranty: 1 week personal

Dealing method: COD or poslaju

Location of seller: Kuching

Contact method/details: Post here or pm me

Age of item: Dunno... must be at least 3 years plus

---

Item(s) conditions: Working well as a multimedia HTPC....... However, there are some minor problems:
1) BIOS settings will reset if no power
- If you don't switch off the main switch, it is ok
- tried changing 3 CMOS batteries but still the same
- dunno what the problem is

2) Northbdrige fan spoiled (removed, see photo)
- better if can get a 40mm fan to fit on the southbridge

3) The casing has self-made holes on each side (see picture)

Picture: As below

Reason for sale: Previous using it as HTPC. Not using it anymore + Funding for 8800GT.

[attachmentid=517183]
Accessories including shuttle bag and normal brand small keyboard

[WTS] Celeron 850mhz (Socket 370) + stock HSF

kmarc — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 22:10:01 +0800

Item(s): - SOLD
1) Intel Celeron 850mhz (socket 370) + stock HSF
- Written on proc - 850/128/100/1.7v
2) Motherboard GA-6VX7B-4X (socket 370, AGP 4x)
3) SDRAMS
- 2 x 64mb SDrams
4) 20gb HDD (Maxtor)

Free : Casing + Dial-up modem + Floppy drive + CD-ROM + FDD/HDD cables

Basically, a partial computer without PSU and graphic card....

Package includes: As above including some CD drivers

Price: RM 80 nego

Warranty: 1 week personal

Dealing method: COD only
- you can test it out, if any problems, can return without any questions.....

Location of seller: Kuching

Contact method/details: PM me or post here

Age of item: Must be old....

---

Item(s) conditions: Working without any problems
- Not too sure about the floppy disk or CD-ROM though..... but that's free!

Picture: See below

Reason for sale: Selling for friend

abcde

[WTB] 2x1gb DDR2-667 RAMs

kmarc — Tue, 20 May 2008 13:02:12 +0800

Item(s): 2x1gb DDR2-667 RAMs

Package includes: 2 sticks of RAM module 2x1gb

Price: Offer me

Warranty: 1 week personal, lifetime from manufacturer

Dealing method: COD or poslaju

Location of buyer: Kuching

Contact method/details: Pm me or post in this thread

Age of item: Not important

---

Item(s) conditions: Should be 100% working

Picture: If possible

Reason for sale: Buying for my friend.....

The "Dual-core" vs. "Quad-core" guide

kmarc — Sat, 17 May 2008 00:16:33 +0800

The "Dual-core" vs. "Quad-core" guide

Time and again, the million dollar question crops up � �Should I buy a dual-core or a quad-core?�

There are scattered pieces of information all over the net. This guide has been created in an attempt to compile, summarize and add useful information and opinions.

Please note:
- I welcome any advice or suggestions that you may have.
- Any mistakes or incorrect facts are regretted and will be corrected when informed.
- I'm not pro-Intel. It's just that I have been using Intel CPUs lately and have more experiences with them

Index
1) Definitions
2) Dual-core vs Quad-core
3) Quad-core - There must be some advantages right?
4) Real world applications/software/games
5) CPU charts 2007
6) Summary

Definitions

The boring stuff. Skip this if you want to go straight to the main topic!

Thread
A thread in computer science is short for "thread of execution". It is is a stream of instructions from a certain program. Threads are a way for a program to fork (or split) itself into two or more simultaneously (or pseudo-simultaneously) running tasks. (wikipedia).

The OS bundles instructions in threads so that it can effectively simulate multitasking (i.e. running 2 programs at once). The CPU basically processes one thread, then switches to another thread (this is term as "context switching"). By doing this very fast at a fixed interval (this is term as "time slice"), it can simulate the illusion that it's running 2 programs at the same time.

For example, if you have a single core CPU, and are running a few programs simultaneously, you can observe that all the programs/tasks are running together without any problems..... It may look like multitasking (as you are running a few task simultaneously) but in reality, it is just an illusion.....

Multi-threading
Multithreading refers to the capability of an application/game to execute different parts of it's program, called threads, simultaneously. This can only be done if the application/game was designed and programmed to do multithreading. Single-threaded programs cannot run this way because it was not programmed as such.

Superthreading
Also know as time-slice multithreading

A multithreading approach that weaves together the execution of different threads on a single processor without truly executing them at the same time. It is motivated by the observation that the processor is occasionally left idle while executing an instruction from one thread. Super-threading seeks to make use of unused processor cycles by applying them to the execution of an instruction from another thread (wikipedia).

Hyperthreading
Also known as simultaneous multithreading (SMT).

An Intel-proprietary technology used to improve parallelization of computations performed on PC microprocessors via simultaneous multithreading. It is an improvement on super-threading (wikipedia).

Hyperthreading was originally introduced by Intel in the single-core Pentium 4 processors. Intel claims up to a 30% speed improvement compared against an otherwise identical, non-simultaneous multithreading Pentium 4. The performance improvement seen is very application-dependent, however, and some programs actually slow down slightly when Hyper Threading Technology is turned on (wikipedia).

Hyperthreading results in a simulated second virtual core within a physical core CPU (single core) and was the first step to take advantage of multi-threaded applications on the desktop. In other words, hyperthreading makes a CPU with a single core pretend to be two so that none of the CPU is being wasted when running programs that don't use the CPU to its full potential.

Except for its performance implications, this innovation is transparent to operating systems and programs. All that is required to take advantage of Hyper-Threading is symmetric multiprocessing (SMP) support in the operating system, as the logical processors appear as standard separate processors.

Remember that hyperthreading can only run on CPUs that have the Hyperthreading technology. Intel is again introducing the hyperthreading technology in the upcoming Nahelem core. This technology would simulate four additional threads in quad-core processors (you could say a virtual 8 core CPU!) and eight additional threads in eight-core processors (for a total of 16).

More details here :
Intro to Multithreading, Superthreading and Hyperthreading (by Jon Stokes)
Hyperthreading - Tomshardware
Hyperthreading (wikipedia)

Note : Multithreading is not the same as multitasking in that threads share more of their environment with each other than do tasks under multitasking (please google for more info on this)

Analogy
Confused? Ok, I will attempt to explain this using a real world example. (Kindly correct me if the example is incorrect or wrong).

Let's take a Malaysian car factory, with 4 workers building 4 separate cars..... say a waja, a saga, a Gen2 and a Lotus Elise ..... (For this example, the car factory is your CPU)

However, the car factory has only one production line, meaning that at any one time, only one worker can work on his car. (The production line is the process. As your CPU is a single-core, it can only run only one process at a time)

In that production line, it is divided into a few sections i.e. metal section for creating the body, engine section, electrical section, interior car section, painting section, tyre section and final assembly section. (Each section is like the "thread" in the process/program)

Because the production line can only accommodate one worker at a time, it means that one worker can only build his car until he finishes it at the final assembly area before another worker can start building his car. (This is like a single-core CPU running a single-threaded process/program)

This is wasteful, isn't it?

Furthermore, if the worker gets stuck somewhere down the production line, e.g. at the engine section, the whole production line would come to a stop until he gets through the whole production line.....

Understand so far?

Ok, suppose that the production line can allocate a fixed time for each person to work on the production line, say 30 minutes for each worker (time slicing). This means that all 4 workers can work on the production line once it is their turn to do so. However, only one worker can work on the production line at any one 30-minute time. (This is analogous to multithreading). So, even if one worker is stuck at a certain section, once his 30 minutes is up, he has to stop while other workers start their 30-minute allotted time.

So, what you see is the "illusion" that all 4 workers are working in the factory but in fact, only one worker is working at any one time. The good thing about this is that other workers can still continue their work even if one worker is stuck somewhere.....

(I can't really understand superthreading, so I can't give an analogy on that. Anybody can help?)

Now, suppose that the production line can accommodate 2 workers in any section of the production line at any one time. This means that 2 workers can work simultaneously to complete their car. As such, even though there is only one production line, due to this ability, it is like having each worker working in their own production line or it is like having 2 production lines instead of one. (This is hyperthreading).

Due to this, the production line would be more efficient as 2 workers can build 2 cars at the same time.

Important : Of course, this is not really what happens in CPU. This analogy is just trying to make you understand what each term means.

Note : I hope my analogy is not flawed. Any expert help would be appreciated!!!

Dual-core vs Quad-core
What are the advantages/disadvantages of dual-core vs. quad-core?

Dual-core
- Less power consumption
- Less heat generation
- Better overclocking capabilities
- Lower price
- At the same price point, a dual-core generally has a higher stock/overclocking speed

Quad-core
- Higher power consumption
- Higher heat generation
- Lower overclocking capabilities
- Higher price
- Even with double the cores of dual-core, the improvement in any given application that supports 4-cores is not doubled! (note : The folding program is one exception, where you can get almost double the computation with quads!!!)

Important : Please note that when we talk about dual vs quad, the comparison is usually valid for the same types of CPU family i.e. comparing a dual conroe with a quad conroe, or a dual penryn vs. a quad penryn.....

Power consumption
- higher for quads either at idle or at load
- which leads to higher electricity bill!

Here's a nice chart from www.bit-tech.net
Source : http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2008/04/0...00_and_e8200/11

[attachmentid=472854]

Heat generation
- 4 cores will generate more heat
- As such, a quad would need better cooling
- Remember that heat is the no. 1 enemy of overclocking

This is reflected as TDP (although Intel and AMD's definition of TDP is different). See the table below....
[attachmentid=473969]

Overclocking
Quad-cores loses out to dual-cores in terms of overclocking in every aspect (even if they use the same processor die):

1) Speed - dual-core can overclock higher at any given vcore
--- e.g. my previous E6750 can OC to 3.5Ghz at 1.400v in BIOS, where my current Q6600 can only reach 3.2Ghz at 1.400v in BIOS....

2) FSB - quad-cores usually have a lower max FSB, mainly due not only to heat but bus speed issues
--- e.g. a E6750 G0 stepping may max at 490-500mhz.... a Q6600 G0 may only max at 450-460mhz....

3) Tweaking/BIOS setup - a quad-core may need more tweaks in BIOS e.g. VTT, GTL, etc....

4) Vdroop - using a similar setup/motherboard, quad-cores usually have a larger vdroop, making load vcore lower and thus less overclocking speed
--- It is observed that quad-core results in more vdroop
--- For example, for a BIOS-set vcore of 1.400v:
------ a dual-core may result in a vdrop/vdroop of at load e.g. : 1.39v/1.36v
------ a quad-core usually has a higher vdrop/vdroop at load e.g. : 1.36v/1.32v
--- So, if you look at the real vcore at load, the dual will be running at 1.36v whereas the quad is running at 1.32v, which is 0.04v lower.....

5) Heat - there will be much more heat generated for an overclocked quad-core as compared to an overclocked dual-core
--- this will again, limit the overclocking capabilities of the quad....

Prices
Important : Please note that the prices refer to RETAILS units and not OEM.....

Speed for speed - Dual-cores are cheaper than quad-cores
- e.g. E6600 is cheaper than Q6600 (both stock speed at 2.4Ghz)
- e.g. E6750 is also cheaper than Q6600 (Even though the E6750 runs faster at 2.66Ghz)

At the same price point - Dual-core are generally has a faster speed
- E.g. Previous, you could probably get a E6850 (3.0Ghz) at the same price as a Q6600 (2.4Ghz) - dropping prices not withstanding
- Due to this factor, the dual-core would be better suited for non-overclockers.....

- Comparing a E6850 vs a Q6600 (quoted below): http://www.neoseeker.com/resourcelink.html?rlid=154933

QUOTE

The advantages of dual-core Core 2 Duo E6850 over the quad-core Core 2 Quad Q6600 look as follows:
- 25% higher clock speed ensuring higher performance in applications that aren�t optimized for multi-threading;
- Higher bus frequency that increases the memory subsystem performance. Peak bandwidth of the bus between the processor and memory for CPUs with 1333MHz bus is 10.7GB/s vs. 8.5GB/s by CPUs with 1067MHz bus.
- 46% lower heat dissipation that allows using relatively simple and inexpensive cooling solutions, even during overclocking.

The advantages of the quad-core Core 2 Quad Q6600 over dual-core Core 2 Duo E6850:
- Twice as many computational cores that ensure higher performance in multi-threaded applications.
- Twice as large L2 cache memory. It is especially crucial for Windows Vista users as this operating system can distribute computational threads intellectually over the cores with shared or exclusive L2 cache.

- Comparing a E6850 vs a QX6850 : http://www.tkarena.com/Articles/tabid/59/c...33/Default.aspx

- Comparing a E8500 vs a Q9300 (quoted below) : http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/displ...00_5.html#sect0

QUOTE

This picture is very ambiguous. There are still quite a lot of applications that haven�t been optimized for CPUs with more than two cores that is why Core 2 Quad Q9300 gets often defeated by Core 2 Duo E8500 due to the higher clock frequency of the latter. It is especially frustrating that games, even the latest ones, fall into the non-optimized applications category, as they still cannot use efficiently the advantages of multi-core micro-architecture. However, the situation is not as hopeless as it was 6 months ago, for instance. Game developers started paying some attention to optimizing their work for processors with more than two cores onboard. The list of games that provide quality quad-core processors support has increased significantly and currently includes such popular titles as Supreme Commander, Lost Planet: Extreme Condition, Unreal Tournament 3, Microsoft Flight Simulator X, etc.

-Comparing a E8600/E8500 vs a Q6700/Q6600 : http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/intel_...iew/default.asp

QUOTE

Ultimately your opinion on the E8600 is going to depend on how you use your PC. If you’re the type of user who spends a lot of time with video encoding and other apps like Photoshop and Premiere and not so much gaming, a dual-core CPU like the E8600 probably won’t do despite its 3.33GHz clock speed.

Gamers however that don’t dabble with these apps would be well served by the E8600. It has an enormous amount of headroom for overclocking, blazing clock speed, and consumes less power than comparably priced quad-core CPUs from AMD and Intel.

For these users the only real downside to the E8600 is its price: the CPU is selling on Newegg right now for $275; $85 more than the E8500, which performed just 2-3% slower in most of our testing.

Is the E8600 worth an extra $85? For most users, probably not. But for that enthusiast who really wants to OC this chip to its fullest potential, it really is nice having that 10.0 clock multiplier.

If it were my money though I’d probably save the cash and get an E8400.

For gamers:
- The graphic card is usually more important than the CPU (in general)
- the money saved to get a dual-core instead of a quad-core can be used to spend on better graphic cards!!!

Read more about this here :
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/dual-quad,1720-18.html
http://www.guru3d.com/article/cpu-scaling-...e-processors/11

Quad core - there must be some advantages right?

1) Quad core has a distinct performance advantage in a wide variety of professional applications because many of them are design for multithreading
- Video editing/encoding
- 3D graphics rendering
- Image processing
- Scientific computing e.g. Folding
- many background processes e.g. anti-virus, anti-spyware, Bittorrent, etc...
- multitasking, examples are:
--- DivX encode + 720p Quicktime - http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=9323&page=8
--- MP3 & WME9 encoding while gaming - http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/intel_...view/page10.asp

- Audio encoding???

2) Quads usually have larger L2 cache, which maybe useful for cache-intensive applications

However, in games, the advantages of quad-core is minimal as most current games support only a single thread and occasionally two, but rarely four.

Real world applications/softwares/games

Note : Numbers in bracket are the sources/references listed below

No or negligible improvement (speed for speed) using quad-core
Games
- Battlefield 2 (16)
- Call of Duty 2 (1)
- Call of Duty 4 : Modern warfare (14,18)
- Company of Heroes (12,19)
- Crysis ? (13,14,15,17,18,19) - most review does not show any improvements, ? graphic card bottle-neck?
- Elders scroll : Oblivion (3,6)
- Enemy territory : Quake wars (18)
- Far cry (9)
- FEAR : Extraction point (1,9,14,18)
- Half life : Episode 1 (6)
- Half Life : Lost coast (12)
- Half life 2 Episode 2 ? (13,14) - suppose to support quad core but reviews say otherwise
- Need for speed : Most wanted (7)
- Prey (2)
- Quake 4 (1,2,9)
- Quake wars : Enemy territory (19)
- Rainbow 6 : Vegas (3)
- Serious sam 2 (2)
- Stalker - Shadow of Chernobyl (18)
- Unreal tournament 2004 (2)
- Warhammer : Mark of chaos (2)
- World in conflict (13,15,17,18,19)
- World of warcraft (17)

Applications
- Adobe premier (16)
- Aquamark 3 (5)
- AVG antivirus (2) - actually slower!
- Blender (15)
- Clone DVD 2 (2)
- iTunes audio/mp3 encoding (2,11,13)
- LAME 3.97/LAME MP3 Encoder (1,2,8,16)
- Mathematica (13)
- Mozilla (16)
- MS Office (16)
- Org-Vorbis 1.1.2 (1)
- Photoshop 7.0.1/CS2/CS3 (2,9,16)
- Photoshop Elements (10)
- Pinnacle studio 11 Plus (2)
- Powerpoint to PDF (2)
- SpecViewperf 8.01 (5)
- Tar Archiving (14)
- Techgauge Image Suite (14)
- Videowave movie creator (16)
- Winzip 8.1 (16)
- xviD 1.13 (1,2)

Improvement (speed for speed) using quad core
Games
- Alan Wake
- Deep Fritz 10 Chess (2)
- Lost planet : Extreme condition (11,19)
- Splinter cell : Double Agent
- Supreme commander (2) - some reviews show no improvement
- Unreal Engine 3 e.g. Unreal tournament 2007 (13)
- Valve source engine (3)

- Hellgate : London?
- Assassin's creed?

Applications
- 3D Studio Max 7.0/8.0/9.0 (1,6,14)
- 7-Zip (14)
- Adobe Lightroom 1.2 (14)
- Adobe Premier 2.0 (2)
- After effects CS3 (13)
- AutoMKV (x264 Encoding (15)
- Cinebench 2003/9.5/10 (3,5,6,8,11,14,15,19)
- Cinema 4D release 10 (2)
- Divx 6.6/6.8 (optimized for quad-core) (1,2,13,15)
- Excel 2007 (11)
- Folding (16)
- GCC compiler (14)
- HDTV playback (with Power DVD 7.3) (2)
- Lightwave 3D 7.5 (5)
- Mainconcept H.264 Encoder (2,13)
- Nero Recode (6)
- Paint.NET x64 3.20 (15)
- picColor (8)
- Pinnacle Studio Plus v10.6 (4)
- POV-Ray (3,16)
- Quick Time Pro v7.0.4 (4)
- Sony Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 8 (15)
- The Panaroma Factory (8)
- Valve particle benchmark (6)
- VirtualDub 1.7.6 (14)
- Windows Media Encoder (3,8,16,19)
- Wine Compile (GCC 4.1.1, i686) (6)
- Winrar 3.7 (11)
- Winrar 3.71 (2,15)
- XMpeg 5.0.3 (5)

- Any CPU benchmark software (obviously!) - e.g PCMark 2005 (1), Sisoft Sandra CPU test (1), 3Dmark

Sources
1) http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/extreme-fsb-2,1663.html
2) http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/dual-quad,1720-24.html
3) http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000942.html
4) http://www.techspot.com/review/36-intel-co...6600/page6.html
5) http://www.neoseeker.com/resourcelink.html?rid=134470
6) http://techgage.com/article/intel_core_2_quad_q6600/4
7) http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/q6600/11.htm
8) http://techreport.com/articles.x/12737/8
9) http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/463/5
10) http://www.trustedreviews.com/cpu-memory/r...-E6850-E6750/p7
11) http://www.neoseeker.com/resourcelink.html?rlid=154933
12) http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/intel_...eview/page8.asp
13) http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/displ...00_5.html#sect0
14) http://techgage.com/article/intel_core_2_d...fdale_arrives/5
15) http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2008/04/0...400_and_e8200/4
16) http://techreport.com/articles.x/11160/5
17) http://www.tkarena.com/Articles/tabid/59/c...38/Default.aspx
18) http://www.guru3d.com/article/cpu-scaling-...re-processors/3

19) http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/intel_...eview/page4.asp

CPU charts 2007 - Tomshardware

Here's a link to Tomshardware's CPU charts 2007 : Tomshardware CPU charts 2007
- you can choose the type of program to compare
- and select the CPU you want to compare with (add or remove a CPU)
- very good chart although limited programs/games available

Update : Tomshardware's CPU charts 2008 : http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/desktop...chmarks,31.html

Summary

Based on current environment, this is my humble opinion....

In reality, the quad-core is ahead of software development, especially in mainstream consumer applications and games. Many quad core owners may be under utilizing their quad core, which, if replaced with a similarly priced dual-core, would probably resulted in more advantages in every aspects of computing/gaming.

By the time software development catches up with current hardware (if it ever does but at least with multithreading), a new generation of quad-cores or even octa-cores might have been rolled out. At that time, the multi-cores would be in a better position to take advantage of multithreaded software/games as compared to now.

In conclusion, if you are contemplating quads but not really using multithreaded software/games, remember that a similarly-priced dual-core might be a better option.

All said, the final decision is still yours.... new dual-core or quad-core, your rig will rock!

[WTS] ASUS 8800 GTS 640mb (G80 core)

kmarc — Sat, 10 May 2008 22:41:26 +0800

- Bidding style
- Start at RM400, increment RM5
- Ends on Monday (19 May 2008) 6 pm
- Will sell to highest bidder irregardless of amount (minimum RM400)
- If last minute bidding, I have the right to choose who I will sell the card to (to avoid dispute)....

Just a reminder (summary of the text below):
If postage, add RM10 (poslaju to anywhere in Malaysia)
Warranty : 1 week personal, the rest from ASUS (supposed to be 3 years but my source say some dealer give 2 years???)

Highest bid :
Darnell - RM455
Samurai_laju - RM460
Penjejak awan - RM470

Item(s): ASUS 8800GTS 640mb (G80 core)

- Please note : This is not the same card as the 8800GTS 512mb G92 core

Package includes: Whole box with the following:
- Speedsetup manual
- x1 Tom's Clancy Ghost Recon game
- x1 GTI racing game
- x1 3Dmark06
- x1 CD driver
- x1 CD manual
- DVI to D-sub adapter
- molex to 6-pin PCI-E adapter

Price: Bidding.... start at RM400 (quick grab RM500)

Warranty: Should be 2 years (Registered online on 26/8/07 for a supposedly 3 year warranty.... see picture below)
No receipt but the forumer I bought from can help to RMA as he knows the ASUS distributor in Kuching. Alternatively, probably can RMA at any dealer in West Malaysia if any problems
- note : Not too sure whether ASUS will consider the warranty date starting from April 2007 or August 2007....

Update : My previous seller told me the card may either be 2 years or 3 years warranty depending on the distributor. However, ASUS website states that it is 3 years. For the moment, I will put 2 years as the warranty (just to be on the safe side).

For personal warranty : 1 week
Subsequent warranty : 2-3 years, claim from ASUS

Dealing method: COD or postage

Location of seller: Kuching

Contact method/details: Pm me or post in here

Age of item: I bought from another forumer who bought in April 2007 (I think, have to clarify with him)

---

Item(s) conditions: 100% working
A bit dirty on appearance with slight rust on the back panel.....
Protruding RAM thermal pad looks like mouse bait....

Picture:

Reason for sale: Wanna try 8800GT

Overclocking capabilities : See my sig.....

Usage:
24/7 - downclocked at core/mem : 300/400mhz
Gaming - set to stock clocks : 512/792mhz
Play crysis - set to core/mem : 600/950mhz
Maximum stable overclock : 648/972mhz

Gaming - no problems gaming at full settings on my 19' inch LCD.... not too sure about bigger LCD/higher resolution
- applies to most games except crysis

Dual-slot cooling - very silent fan - 24/7 running at 60% fan speed on naked rig (see pic)
- on gaming - fan speed increase to 80%

640mb vs 320mb
Here's a comparison between the 640mb vs 320mb version. The 640mb is usually slightly faster : http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/dis...800gts-640.html

3Dmark score using E6750 and overclocked (stable) GC at 648/1620/972mhz....
[attachmentid=471059]

[Cancelled] Creative X-fi Xtreme music

kmarc — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 15:28:48 +0800

Dateline 20/4/08. Will send the card out by Monday 21/4/08.........
- highest offer so far RM280 including postage (- f 0 7 -)

Item(s): Creative X-fi Xtreme music

Package includes: Everything that came with the box (except the sticker)
- CD Driver
- Manuals
- Sticker for speakers plug-in port
- Receipt

Price: Offer me....

Warranty: 1 week personal

Dealing method: COD or poslaju (if poslaju, buyer bears the postage)

Location of seller: Kuching

Contact method/details: PM me or post here

Age of item: Bought on 12 Dec 2005

---

Item(s) conditions: 100% working

Picture: As below

Reason for sale: Not gaming much nowadays.... just using onboard audio....