Lowyat.NET: Latest posts in How do you define a 'pro' photographer?

Post #171

bransoul — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 22:42:48 +0800

QUOTE(ramblie @ Nov 14 2008, 08:57 AM)

I still remember the keyword: photog is his/her extension of his/her mind...
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yaya,agreed,photo represent us,the way we think!

Post #170

ramblie — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 08:57:43 +0800

QUOTE(ahnien @ Oct 31 2008, 03:54 AM)

eih... based on the link....

i think all of us here in this forum are: Online Expert or Armchair Photographer: Level 0

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

This level never existed before the internet, because cameras were never as exciting as sports cars or missiles for men to research.

This became terrifyingly apparent one day when I got an email from someone who didn't think an example I posted of a sharp lens was sharp. I was confused, since it was exceptionally sharp, which is why I posted it. When I asked this reader "not sharp compared to what?," he replied that it wasn't as sharp as a different example of a different lens he saw posted on some other website.

Holy Crap! This was a guy who doesn't even own a camera! He spends his time researching them and spreading his irrelevant opinions all over the Internet!

The Internet is ablaze with these guys. Forums and chat rooms are loaded with them. Photographers don't have the time for forums. We have more photography to do than time to do it.

Photography was never cool enough before digital to attract men's attention for no particular reason. Personally, the muzzle velocity of a Barrett 50-calibre sniper rifle is far more interesting to me than the MTF of a digital camera I'll never use. If I worked in an office and could waste my employer's time researching personal hobbies on the Internet, I'd rather look at pornography than research other people's cameras.

This level has existed in the automotive marketspace forever, with young boys learning every possible performance specification of Corvettes and Ferraris. We boys start this more than 10 years before we can get a driver's license, much less be able to buy our own Ferraris.

Boys love to learn about cars, guns, motorcycles and anything technical. I know I sure do. We men never grow out of wanting to know everything about everything, and telling you so.

Just because any car nut can tell you every possible performance specification of a Ferrari doesn't mean he can drive. Most of these people live in places where they've never even seen a Ferrari, much less ever owned one themselves.

Today with digital photography, we now have the same lookie-loos researching digital camera specs just for the bizarre fun of it. Ignore them. They love to talk and research, but aren't photographers.

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I still remember the keyword: photog is his/her extension of his/her mind...

Post #169

bransoul — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:17:31 +0800

Keep the idea coming! Pros~

Post #168

ahnien — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 03:54:33 +0800

QUOTE(ramblie @ Oct 9 2008, 02:55 PM)

Here some information for us sharing here. The good one I think

The Seven Levels of Photographers
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eih... based on the link....

i think all of us here in this forum are: Online Expert or Armchair Photographer: Level 0

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Post #167

ramblie — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 08:33:07 +0800

QUOTE(ubi.kentang @ Oct 13 2008, 06:55 PM)

this is an interesting topic.

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Good topic This is your own idea ka? Good la

Post #166

ubi.kentang — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 18:55:46 +0800

this is an interesting topic.

i shoot fulltime, organise highly customise theme photoshoots (not to be confused with 1 model and 16 photogs type of sessions) and give classes to hobbyist in portraiture, recently.

i was a serious hobbyist since 2002 and shoot exclusively in portraits since 2004.

any fulltimers around? based on the replies, i noticed that not one (maybe i missed a reply or someone may have summed up what i am about to say in another way) ever mentioned about the business processes of a photographer when you define a "pro" photographer.

producing expected photos is just part of a process, and not the whole process.

it is similar to other businesses or practises.

to level expectations - there is nothing magical about it (apart you get to do what you like - taking photos)

to me, definition of a "pro" photographer - because of the unique nature of how we conduct businesses here - good business sense (and know how to make full use of it - examples - copyright issues, usage rights and collections of payments), good people skill (because you have to meet and loads of people), teamplayer (because you often work with a crew) and being able be fluid and adaptable (sorry, there is no text book solutions when things changes while on shoot ).

a special mention on business sense - pricing. often most "photographers" compete via pricing. when you are out to get a job with a price war in mind - everyone will lose (customer will gain of course, but on whose expense?). in my eyes, a "pro" photographer will try to avoid to have a price war. he/she have pride in his / her work and will not undervalue his / her work. if everyone practise this - you will never ever need to do a rm150 full day wedding job again.

some i know are willing to do it for free or dirt cheap - but, have a look at this article - http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/1989

then again - it varies pending on what you specialise in. different type of photographers have different requirements and workflows. it sounds logical BUT often people assume a photographer is a photographer regardless of what specific branch / genre they are in.

when you sit down and have a good look - they share the same type of business processes.

the shocker of all things - taking good photos and have an articulate knowledge of your craft - imoho, these elements are pre-requiste. it could be a mere suggestion a few years ago but as of now, with how technology is (affordable good quality cameras) and how knowledgeable customers are - you better know what you are doing because things have change rapidly and dramatically.

if i have a choice, i dont even want to be labelled as a "pro" - its unncessary pressure and attract unneccessary expectations. just as long as i deliver the expected "products" and service my customers as they expected for the value they are paying me, im more than happy.

im wondering if we ever have a poll for "pro" customers - in definition - know specificaly what want (if not, will ask you for advice), acknowledge and recognise your skillset and pay you fairly and promptly for your sevices.

Post #165

ramblie — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 14:55:14 +0800

Here some information for us sharing here. The good one I think

The Seven Levels of Photographers

Post #164

li_ping — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 18:43:08 +0800

most important is skill of cos!!

Post #163

320cbr — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 02:08:29 +0800

If that person is a photographer for hire,
I agree with not being 'too impressive'
the important thing is to get the job done as efficiently as possible (this is what we call professionalism)

hobbyist probably seeks the enjoyment of capturing beautiful visions, not for money.

Post #162

avantgardeo — Sat, 27 Sep 2008 11:06:53 +0800

I think "professional" photographers are not necessarily "art photographers". I'll define a pro photographer as someone who makes money out of photography, or someone whose day job is to take photos. Their photos need not to be highly impressive, they just need to be useful. Though some of them are also doing the art thing as well.

Just my 2 cents.

Post #161

insane.gamer — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:03:49 +0800

QUOTE(goldfries @ Sep 3 2008, 04:48 PM)

i think that's pretty much what i'm saying. but then everyone has their opinion, i'm just saying my POV.
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POV sounds familiar
sorry for my hornyness
i think 'pro' is like those who take picture for Big Weddings, special occasions etc. and get paid for it

Post #160

hanieyf — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 16:11:16 +0800

why no 5?

Post #159

wkhai — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:34:02 +0800

QUOTE(goldfries @ Sep 2 2008, 11:38 AM)

question : why 75%? why not 60%? why not 90%?
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good question... for the answer to that, i guess you'll have to ask Maniac who started the poll why he chose 75%
i'm merely quoting from the available options

Post #158

strangex2 — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 20:59:36 +0800

Err, I am a programmer. And I earn my living out of programming. That makes me a PRO programmer!!

Post #157

capiche — Thu, 04 Sep 2008 07:44:40 +0800

nvm lar bro... other ppl got their POV too.. just be proud of yours..

Post #156

goldfries — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 16:48:41 +0800

i think that's pretty much what i'm saying. but then everyone has their opinion, i'm just saying my POV.

Post #155

capiche — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 10:42:28 +0800

expert = they are good at 'smtg'.. but their job is irrelevant with that 'smtg'
pro = they are good at 'smtg'.. their job is that 'smtg'

hope this would be even simpler... am i right goldfries?

haha...

Post #154

goldfries — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 09:54:44 +0800

more like this.

If a person was a great gamer, I'd say the person is an expert or advanced or good gamer rather than PRO gamer.

same goes to a photographer, or anyone else.

if you notice columns in magazines or newspaper, they have columns titled ASK THE EXPERT, not ASK THE PRO.

if you saw The Sun newspaper yesterday, there's one page indicated a lady being wife in the morning, professional during work hours, mother after work hours - with the word PROFESSIONAL clearly stated.

Post #153

fcbarcelona-my — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 09:49:03 +0800

QUOTE(goldfries @ Sep 3 2008, 01:49 AM)

yeah. that's the thing.

people confuse the word PRO and EXPERT.

it's funny how many people when see someone do better than them, they'll say "you PRO la".
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looks pro..doesn't mean his is expert...izzit what u mean bro?

so......high-tech body with several * lens ....just looks pro...unless he was proven expert by his award winning pictarz. errr...izzit kah bro?

Post #152

goldfries — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 01:49:30 +0800

QUOTE(capiche @ Sep 2 2008, 11:16 PM)

same goes to pro gamer..

yeah. that's the thing.

people confuse the word PRO and EXPERT.

it's funny how many people when see someone do better than them, they'll say "you PRO la".